Audiotour through a noisy city and isolation through sound...

I am working on an audiotour with one listener and one guide. The guides are migrants and let the listener hear (without using their own words) the way they experience their new surroundings and the place they come from. There is a narrator using abstract descriptions about feeling at home, feeling lost in translation etc. etc.

The audiotour is set out in a rather noisy part of a city in the netherlands (utrecht). Although we are using nice headphones, which cancel out a lot already, i'm still looking for a "sound" to keep the listener focussed. In a cinema isolation is, supposed to be, guaranteed as soon as you step inside the room. But we are in a city not a cinema unfortunately...

Let me put it in another way, we want the listener to feel distant to the city, much like their guide does. I have some great source material from the city but it is very difficult to keep the soundtrack sounding "neutral". Because i don't want to listener to feel frightened or excited by the sounds. I just want them to feel isolated and out of this world for an hour or so :)

The director asked me to create an "empty" city with just footsteps and wind. The footsteps are very difficult to find or create so i want to use the sound of leaves floating over the street.

I can't find a neutral kind of wind which refers to an empty city. I have checked out my personal library and all wind sounds are too meaningfull or too soft.

Furthermore I am experimenting with typical city sounds (ventilation,traffic, murmur, wind) filtering and using reverbs in subtle ways, Some work, some don't. It think it depends on the source material a lot also...i will record some more this week.

Anyone any clues as to how i can create or where i can find these sounds ? Especially the winds and the leaves...

-Arnoud

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For my 2c I'd say you ought to concentrate on the acoustic space. There are very few sounds that are *unique* to a city. You can hear leaves, wind, police cars and crowds in a rural environment too, so what makes it a city?

Mainly its the combination and the cookery, so ham, cheese, tomato and bread can be a sandwich or a pizza. The cookery part is the space you put it in to tie things together.

Finding a "city" space is hard. First of all the processing power needed to do the job properly is ginormous, so offline processing is likely needed. Secondly, you hardly ever get an empty city, so there's few opportinities to take an impulse response (make a reverb)from that situation. Twice I've experienced an empty town/city and its a weird feeling. Once in Portugal in an abandoned town (the water
hole dried up), and once in the London docklands after they built the warf but before anybody moved in. You can clap your hands and hear the most amazingly complex reverb bouncing off buildings etc.

If you get this space right it will have an important psychoacoustic effect on the listener and draw them into the virtual space (as opposed to a flat 2D mix of sounds) - especialy on headphones - you might like to investigate binaural impulse responses.
-Andy

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Hi Andy, Of course you are absolutely right in the "realistic" sense of the space creates the city. But realitistic is not what i am focussing on simply because it's not achievable for someone in my position (one man band on a budget). Besides that, the impulse responses should be moving (morphing or crossfading) since it's a walking tour ;) and that is impossible at the moment,i think. Please correct me if i'am wrong.

I have been experimenting with some impulse responses from Soundtrack Pro and Sound Forge, but to no avail. I do not know if those are real or not, but they sound plastic and like an echo device. No matter how much i tweak them i don't get the results i want (even with offline processing). I will give it another go, but time is short...

So that's why i'm focusing on isolated content rather than space. As much as i'd wanted to go "your way" it is not an option...
-Arnoud

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"Besides that, the impulse responses should be moving (morphing or crossfading) since it's a walking tour ;) and that is impossible at the moment,i think. Please correct me if i'am wrong."

Ah yes, I see your constraint, that's a very good point, sorry.

"So that's why i'm focusing on isolated content rather than space. As much as i'd wanted to go "your way" it is not an option..."

One thought that came into my mind was Bladerunner. The city scenes in that are interesting. Reminds me more of walking through a busy festival site than a sparse city, or maybe like the market in Soho/chinatown, every sound comes quickly and is gone, so quick you hardly get time to focus on it. The credits I found for sound mixing were Bud Alper, Gordon McCallum and Joel Fein. Maybe some research into those guys approach will help you.

-Andy

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I've done this kind of project before, and it was a lot of fun for me. I treated it like a radio drama, essentially. One thing that I will say that helps immensely is remembering that they are already in the city, so you have that very strong visual sense working on your side.

So, you may have found the most neutral wind sounds that in your studio sound too much like the middle of the countryside, but
for the listener, the immediate and powerful visual assault of a city will get rid of the subtle auditory label of "rural". This can free some selections up.

On an off note, my favorite part of my tour (which was of New
Orleans), had us recreating a bar that was a hot-stop of trouble in
pirate days. Tons of fun for a young designer!
-Chris

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Thread from Sound Design List May 2008

Footsteps with talons

Suggestions or even just film references would be welcome here. This is for an audio play, so I don't have to match to picture or any specific look.

I'm working on a sound of... well technically it's footsteps, but the creatures who are walking are sort of humanoid pterosaurs. So what I'm trying to get is footsteps with claws/ talons.

I started off combining barefoot footsteps I'd recorded for an earlier project with fingerpicks (those things that are like plectrums crossed with false nails) on rock to get the sense of weight as well as the clicks. It sort-of works but I can't quite figure out how to make them better.

I thought of trying to get recordings of dog or cat footsteps but they are either less than plentiful in libraries or I've been using the wrong search terms. That could work, but it would need editing because the creatures are walking as bipeds for this particular fiction rather than quadrupeds. The only other thing I thought of was using metal bottle tops, which was mentioned in a special feature on the LOTR
DVDs. I'm a little worried that it might not be quite so effective when we only have 2/3 creatures rather than hundreds.

As I said at the beginning, I'm grateful for any suggestions or film/audio references that might spring to mind.

-Matt

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Jurassic park must be the reference, surely? "there's a raptor in my kitchen, what am I gonna do"!
-Jerome

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The major effecting factor is what surface are they walking on? Dirt, leaves, etc, you really wouldn't hear the talon.

On a hard finished surface, then the talon would come into play. Each type of surface will effect the sound.
-henry

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I've gotten similar sounds by recording my dog's toenails as she across a wood floor. You can isolate the footfall/nail clicks and toss them into a sampler, or a scoring program like Digital Performer, Pro Tools or Live to simulate how a bi-ped walks.

You could also try getting a bird claw from a second hand store or taxidermist, and bringing it into your studio to record on the surface of choice. You could even record your own fingernails, or deploy some press-on nails. Any of these would give you that nice "click" element to process and mix with other footfall sounds.

You might also try a pencil, chopstick, drumstick, a ball point pen.... or hire a really big chicken! Or... record an ostrich at the zoo?

I'm just throwing out some ideas. Some I've tried, some I haven't.

- Heather

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Try goat hooves -- they're available from percussion stores.

Google "goat hoof rattle" or "goat hoof shaker" for a gaggle of sources.

Same organic material (keratin) as claws, fingernails, horns, etc.

Cut them off whatever they're attached to, tape to your fingers and thumbs, and Foley away.
-Jerry

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Thank you for all the suggestions. In the end we've gone with simply barefeet on stone because we found that when you start introducing all the other elements in an audio-only production it can sound a little confusing.

Still, it gave me an excuse to finally buy Jurassic Park on DVD.
-Matthew

Thread from Sound Design List May 2008

Grenade sounds

I have a couple shots in a film where someone pulls a pin from a grenade. The director told me that the sound I've created isn't quite right and that there is actually a sort of "spring" sound that goes off when one pulls the pin.

I've searched through my library and checked out soundsnap and freesound but I've come up with little results - so I have no idea what the sound is actually like (and hence, why I had created a sound that doesn't have a spring in it). I've also checked sound dogs and have come up with nothing "spring like."

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

-greg

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I think "TING" might be what you are looking for... Metal ping, ting... lots of small metal hits with out the inital attack should get you there.
-Coll

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There's two sounds happening there. The lever release and the percussion cap plunger. Try spoons or the metal catches on an ammo box for the first. For the second try pinging the prongs of a dinner fork, or one click of a ratchet spanner,
or a spring loaded metal radio button.
-Andy

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When a pin is pulled from a grenade, and the grenade leaves the hand, a sprung handle flips off which sets the timer going...maybe it's this that he's missing?
- Jerome

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I've recorded such a sound (also for grenade) once using my finger-
ring and a key, finger-ring and a very short table mic standard and
finger-ring combined with other small metal things. The keys give it a
kind of raw feeling and the rest is more the clean metal ting. So the
fingerring worked out very well for me.
-Axel

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Personally, I bought some grenades. Deactivated, unfortunately. :)
-Lee

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I have a couple shots in a film where someone pulls a pin from a grenade. The director told me that the sound I've created isn't quite right and that there is actually a sort of "spring" sound that goes off when one pulls the pin.

Greg!
There really isn't - there is a spring under the "spoon" which is the mechanical safety lever - once that lever is removed or thrown after the grenade is released, the pyro fuse is ignited which then burns for approx 3 seconds (lowest bidder anyone?)

You might look at spring steel sorts of sounds to meet the directors expectations...

Do not try to educate him, because he knows the emotional effect he is going for.
- charles

Thread from Sound Design List May 2008

Communicating sound ideas

As research I would like to ask you all for some thoughts on this subject.

Specification of sound.

How do you communicate the design requirements for particular sounds? Either as the designer receiving a spec, or as the writer or director providing a spec.

Do you work best with examples or established reference points?

Are written descriptions with metaphor, simile, and onomatopoeia important ways of describing sound?

Or do diagrams and character sketches play an important role?

Or do you simply prefer to work without guidance using your own interpretations and imagination, reworking any material that the rest of the team doesn't feel is working?

Do you find yourself making weird noises to studio colleagues in order to get sound ideas across?

This is a very open question so please answer freely without any prescriptive presumptions - I'm looking for diversity in how we get around the "communications barrier" of sound.
-Andy

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All of the examples you outlined are fantastic tools for communicating ideas! As you know, the core of our profession is selecting and using the most appropriate sound elements for the situation. Similarly, using the most appropriate method of
communication for specification of sound is also an artform. It is also one I'm still learning.


In sales, it's important to "qualify" the customer by quickly figuring out the language the customer speaks. Are they experienced, novice, more technical or artistically inclined? What are their interests?

Tailoring the language of direction to the sound designer will prevent your team mates from getting offended by talking down to them or getting lost by speaking about things outside of their realm of understanding.

How I communicate my descriptions depends on a number of factors.

Knowing both the legal ramifications of creative direction in a formal environment and having an understanding of the creative process are important. When collaborating, it's important for me to understand my role and the role of the person either giving or receiving direction.

In the U.S. games industry, creative control is a very important concept. Having creative control over content is what often distinguishes a salaried employee from being qualified for overtime pay or not.


With that in mind, a huge amount of trust must be placed in the hands of the professional salaried sound designer to allow them to make informed decisions about the most appropriate content. This is where hiring the right talent and letting go of control comes into play.


In a situation where I'm giving direction to another sound designer, I might describe what the sound supports on screen, it's context, how the should should behave in an interactive environment and what the deadlines and memory budget restrictions are.

Additionally, I may suggest processes or source material that I think would be appropriate. I've heard of others describing the "feel" that they want the sound to have rather than the sound itself.

After giving direction, listening to feedback and criticism of those ideas from your sound designer is important. They may have a suggestion for how to make things sound even better or may have questions to clarify the request.

In a situation where I'm receiving direction, I may ask leading yet helpful questions about direction that could help guide my director to a clearer vision of their own request. Putting together an audible palate of examples as you mentioned, is great for creating a tangible point of reference.

Finally, onomatopoeia always puts a smile on peoples faces. :)
-Adam

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I'm very interested in the _language_ you might use for this part. How formal is that? Just some friendly words from time to time, or writing up a hard spec?

Prefacing all direction with "Slack-jawed philistine!" or "transient swab!" provides an extra layer of motivation when communicating ideas while at the same time earning respect and admiration from team mates. ;)

Seriously though, respecting your colleagues even when things get difficult is important. I can't say that there is a right answer to these questions. There will be times when different levels of formality are appropriate and times when speaking in person is more advantageous than writing.

Written specs create a paper trail which can be useful but generally take more time than speaking in person. Discretion about the most appropriate methods will come with
experience, or so I've been told...
- Adam

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In sales, it's important to "qualify" the customer by quickly figuring out the language the customer speaks.

Yes, many tribes and dialects to learn about. Movies, games, advertising, radio, music ... all different worlds.

Are they experienced, novice, more technical or artistically inclined? What are their interests?

Yep, finding the right level, that's a good one (one I'm still learning)

How I communicate my descriptions depends on a number of factors. Knowing both the legal ramifications of creative direction in a formal environment and having an understanding of the creative process are important. When collaborating, it's important for me to understand my role and the role of the person either giving or receiving direction.

I included a couple of paragraphs on requirements specification. In software industry generally rec specs are the bread and butter of the contractual prelude. Everything has to nailed down with formal decriptions, test plans and whatever. Are such things seen in film or games sound design. Could such a thing ever work for sound? I'm just not sure it's possible given the diversity of culture, terminology and practice.

The analogy I give is, you ask a painter to paint your house. You just show then the colour and that's it. You don't micro-manage what kind of brushes to use and where to put the ladder.

What I'm interested in is how that differs between areas of the industry. Stories, anecdotes (names changed to protect the innocent), that illustrate implied trust (you're a professional, just get on with it) vs fine grain specification (turning the designer into nothing but a button pusher).

In the U.S. games industry, creative control is a very important concept. Having creative control over content is what often distinguishes a salaried employee from being qualified for overtime pay or not.

That's an interesting one. Imho _not_ having creative control can be the more difficult gig, unless you have "mindreader" on your list of skills. :)

With that in mind, a huge amount of trust must be placed in the hands of the professional salaried sound designer to allow them to make informed decisions about the most appropriate content. This is where hiring the right talent and letting go of control comes into play.

Not sure if we ever got into the subject of reworks on GAF, but it's a fascinating topic. We all expect a certain number of reworks and should budget for them, because nobody does perfect work first time - but where is the happy medium somewhere between total delegation (abandoning control), and neurotic oversight and interference. This surely has a lot to do with the "vibe", relationship between designer and director. Sometimes you work with people and strike up an almost telepathic bond that means very little needs saying.

In a situation where I'm giving direction to another sound designer, I might describe what the sound supports on screen, it's context, how the should should behave in an interactive environment and what the deadlines and memory budget restrictions are.

Additionally, I may suggest processes or source material that I think would be appropriate. I've heard of others describing the "feel" that they want the sound to have rather than the sound itself.

That seems a reasonable way to steer. Practicalities, aesthetic requirements,
some guidance on method. I'm very interested in the _language_ you might
use for this part. How formal is that? Just some friendly words
from time to time, or writing up a hard spec?

After giving direction, listening to feedback and criticism of those ideas from your sound designer is important. They may have a suggestion for how to make things sound even better or may have questions to clarify the request.

Cool, glad you mention this one. I've put down "post spec research"
and "the importance of maintaining dialogue with the team", to keep
it a two way conversation.

In a situation where I'm receiving direction, I may ask leading yet helpful questions about direction that could help guide my director to a clearer vision of their own request. Putting together an audible palate of examples as you mentioned, is great for creating a tangible point of reference.

Great thoughts Adam, thanks for sharing these. Hopefully there will
be some more people with ideas about process and communication.
-Andy

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Thread from Sound Design List May 2008

Rain / Inclement Weather Field Recording

I am gearing up to do some field recording and it looks like the location will have a high chance of Rain & Inclement weather. Does anyone have any tips & tricks for shotgun / Rycote kit, and field recorder rain covers or weather protection advice?

The setup will be mobile, with various shotgun mics, mainly just looking to keep them and the recorders dry. Has anyone ever used the Rycote "The Duck" Rain Cover?

Any information or recording in the rain experience would be greatly appreciated!

-Justin

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I've been contemplating this possiblity myself. Summer storms are coming up here and I want to be ready to get some serious thunder and rain on many surfaces.

First of all you need to protect your gear (and yourself!) without screwing up the recording. This is hard, as in difficult with hard surfaces around, so my first thought is to use light stiff materials coated with a layer of foam to catch the rain without too much of a sound and just let it drip to the sides on the surfaces I want to record anyway.

I'll also want to avoid creating too big a shell around myself, as it might add reflections I don't want. It'll take a bit of experimenting I guess, and sussing out that particular problem is best done when it's not raining and in open areas without additional reflections, such as open fields.

I have a Rycote shell for my KM81. I might get a custom shell made or make it myself, which I could line with porous material inside to keep moisture from dripping insde. This obviously needs a lot of testing too.

I'd be using that kind of approach on myself (foam on plastic sheets probably) too.
Won't that stuff be a sight for sore eyes.

-Tony

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Thread from Sound Design List May 2008

First Dolby 5.1 Mix

I´m editing the sound of a short documentary. I´m a little bit nervous because it´s my first time joying a 5.1 Mix. I´m not doing the mix, it´s a technician from the studio but I will be following his work. I would like to ask you if someone has some tipps or advices for me to make good use of the 5.1 and of our sound design, and how should the session go to the mix also.
-Camila

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I have just finished a 5.1 mix for a short that goes to Cannes. The short was not intended to be finished in 35mm, even if it was shooted in film.

So my session was build around a stereo mix.

Before to go to the final mix, i have prepared more tracks, and what the french called : ambiance raccord, for the central track.

One common thing is to find the central track empty times to times if you have built your proyect arround a stereo proyect and monitoring. You need to have your "central bed" covered, as your stereo one.

If you are monitoring in stereo in your editing studio, you are going to feel that you have not "enough" sounds when you "open" your mix to 5.1.

My advice is that you chech all your proyect, thinking that main actions, voices, foleys, and their "bed ambiences" will be in the central speacker, then stereo ambiences, some FX, and music are going to be in your stereo front. You are going to be able to send to the center if you feel a "hole" on it, and of course you decide to send or not to the surrounds.

If you want an xtra protection, bring with you a HD with extra ambiences, sound librarys etc. I know the mix is not the wright moment to add material to the proyect, but......

I built the sessions in this order:

Dialogues ( production+ADR+voice over)
Ambiances raccord ( the room tones, or ambiences recorded on set)
Ambiences ( ST and mono)
Foley
FX
Music

The order can be as you like, but, you should be clean by no crossing informations.

Anyway the rerecording mixer are going to build the proyect as he likes, starting up to your session.

This is what comes to my mind right now. Million af advices can be said, and all are going to be usefull. Mix is a nice moment.
Enjoy it!
- Fabian

The main point for me is to avoid getting carried away. Just because it's a 5.1 mix, it doesn't mean you have to use all the speakers, all the time. Otherwise you'll find that before you know it, you panned everything to all the speakers, defying the point.

Approach your mix with the view that it's based on the front left and front right speakers (just as in a stereo mix). These will carry the vast majority of the content.

From here, you can then add in the specifics such as dialogue to the center hannel. I wouldn't place much more than this and perhaps some foley.

Same goes for the LFE (sub) channel. Only route specific elements to this and keep it for special moments - this way it will have a far greater impact.

As for the rear left and right speakers - the main point of these is to wrap the audio around the listener. Therefore, mostly ambient elements should go in here. For example, room tones or environment stuff. Basically anything that will give the listener the impression that they are in the same room, or location as the characters on screen.

Also, in some cases, you can pan environment reflects (e.g. reverb and echo) to these.

Perhaps music too.
-Justin

I really want to thank you all for the tips and talkings. As I finish the editing, probably this week, I will review my session taking care of the points you alll said. But I can already say that I feel much more confortable with the mix after theses mails. thank you.

-camila

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Thread from Sound Design List May 2008

Improving a sound recording

This is my problem, I have an mp3 recording of two people during a conversation. One person is speaking quieter than the other which makes it difficult to understand the conversation.

I want to raise the volume and improve on the clarity of the quieter persons voice and quieten down the louder voice. Its been suggested that I first amplify the whole recording and then use a compression tool to flatten out the louder areas. After several days of trying I've not been able to achieve the clarity I need. I have on occasions improved matters slightly only to loose it when making further
adjustments.

I'd like to ask what setting should I be used in a sound editor and compression tool to achieve more clarity and volume please.
-Alan


I don't think anyone is going to be able to tell you how to use your compressor in this case, mainly because each situation is different.

If you want the best results then a single processing chain isn't going to get you there. You need to do some work. Copy the track and silence one voice everywhere in the first track and the other voice in the second track, so you have two separate tracks.

An additional problem may be that the quieter speaker has more room reverberation once you bring the level into the same area as the close speaker, so a little bit of fast gate might help this.

If your target broadcast medium is stereo then panning them slightly apart is an added advantage of splitting which can make the dialogue more intelligable.

-Andy

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From Sound Design List April 2008